Parting thoughts

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Nulluser00
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Parting thoughts

Post by Nulluser00 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:22 pm

In: https://www.sdrplay.com/community/viewt ... f=5&t=4502
I started a thread: Someone wrote: I have a 50 ohm BNC coax connector on about 75 feet of RG6 75 ohm coax.

"sdrom33" very thoughtfully responded with: "Hi Noel, I hope you will forgive me if i tell you that your posts are too long. You are probably very young and inexperienced, so it is a pity to see your long effort go most probably unread because one gets tired before reaching the end!"

I wish to thank sdrom33 for his comments, it eliminated those doubts I'd had over the utility of making comments that I hoped were helpful but were in reality banal, pointless and a total waste of my time, any reader's time and SDRplay sever space.

Based on the helpful comment, I've deleted the posts I could, edited and replaced what text I could with a "." and I accept the other posts will remain for posterity as a warning to others who mistakenly believe they have something meaningful, useful, or interesting to add to this, or any, online forum.

Since this post will certainly jerk the chain of the administrator and/or moderator, please feel free to delete but at the same time close my account and please removed my email address from the SDRplay servers.

Thank you
A Former Forum Member

Reason: No reason

sdrom33
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by sdrom33 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:25 pm

Hi Noel, I am sorry if you took offence at my polite suggestion. I was warning you about the length of your submissions, but never criticized the quality of the material you submitted, which could indeed be of help to us all. What I wanted to put across to you is that too much is not better, but worse, as it obscures what you wish to say. Trying to say what you wish to say with a few words is surely a very good exercise for the mind. You do not need to say it all in one post. Perhaps, if you say it in three posts, rather than one, it is better. Less is more. Why leave, if you enjoy being with us, who share with you this passion for radio?

Reason: No reason

jyduchene
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:20 pm

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by jyduchene » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:54 pm

Noel, I am writing to ask you to reconsider. I have enjoyed you through and well written posts. I am a 70 yr old shortwave listener with no background in engineering or math. I am thwarted by detailed graphs demonstrating concepts beyond my comprehension and interest. Your reports are accessible and a pleasant read. You clearly have competence in engineering but also a gift for the written word. Don’t abandon those of us to pages of graphs which require an explanation of the explanation. I for one appreciate your knowledge and you talent with prose. To sdrom33 you can just pass over posts you don’t wish to read. Good information should be valued.
Last edited by jyduchene on Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am, edited 0 times in total.
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Paul
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:52 am
Location: SW UK

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by Paul » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:54 am

For (the probably sadly departed) Noel
Your inputs were obviously appreciated by some, including myself and I would like to say thank you for them.
They were well written and obviously interesting to some of us who cared to read them.
I was under the impression that one could choose to read, or not, posts on this forum so there shouldn't have been any cause for complaint or comment, other than appreciation or meaningful contribution.
Whilst freedom of expression is to be cherished, negativity is rarely helpful or appreciated.
I will not comment further, other than to make a plea to leave control of content to the moderators.

Reason: No reason

M0RON
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:18 am

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by M0RON » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:23 am

Sorry to see you leave Noel, but I understand your views.
For what it's worth I was, no longer, a member of an amateur radio club in Gloucester, UK. I and a couple of others found that the training was poor and we decided to do something about it and help noobies. This involved changing the way training was delivered, resulting in better pass marks and 100% pass rate. We were a young group and our classes became very popular to the annoyance of the old guard who always do it this way and achieve nothing other than to put off anyone wanting to do anything other than banal nets on the air.
Anyway, I and others left and are no longer in a club, best thing we did.
So although not strictly related to your situation I am trying to say that in radio hobby world you will find plenty of people who don't agree with you and are holier than thou, especially on forums.
You may return and read these supporting posts and change your mind and if you do great, if not, fully understood. And yes, whoever said about graphs, perhaps they should be published elsewhere where they are appreciated by those who want to see such things, I suspect they appeal to a minority.
Andy

Reason: No reason

sdrom33
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by sdrom33 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:15 am

The play of opinions and comments is the salt of this forum, in fact of any community based on freedom of expression. In this way all of us are enriched by the experience and views of one another, the only limit being politeness and well meaning towards your fellow and I do not believe well meaning was missing from my post to Noel.

Everyday one expresses criticism and/or opinions different to those of the other guy, and under a typical situation an interesting and rewarding interplay rises to the advantage of all. On the contrary, if all guys, as soon as they read on the forum a polite opinion they do not like about their posts, erased all they have published and quit, then probably no forum would exist.

Apart from this, the most frightening proposal comes from Paul, who says that the "control of contents must be left to the moderators". Yes, the control of politeness and spite, not the control of opinions. I also wish to remark that some of you guys, with the laudable intent of "supporting" Noel, in reality have implicitly expressed an opinion on his work he will surely dislike. Noel is studying for a PHD degree and the contents and references of many of his, alas, lengthy posts, are highly technical and require a lot of technical expertise to be understood: so, what are we talking about? The issue here, that nobody seems to have understood, is the value of conciseness, not the level of Noel's know how, which nobody questioned.

I also see there seem to be a general dislike about "graphs" and technology to the point that these "indecent" pieces of information should be posted somewhere else: very remarkable, as I thought I was in a forum devoted to Radio Technology.

Finally I believe that in any case one must always be man enough to defend his deeds. You can always flee from a forum, but never from yourself.

Reason: No reason

glovisol
Posts: 658
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 6:42 pm
Location: Piedmont, Italy

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by glovisol » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:34 am

I am not surprised by Noel's strange and puzzling behavior. Some time ago I wrote a post about remoting the RSP receivers by means of USB cables, after a long search to find a suitable one. Noel commented with torrential posts where he was describing untold potential dangers by lightning, really taking the matter out of its natural context. When I replied I did not agree, he just removed his posts and this was the end of it.....Why, anybody is entitled to his ideas, so really this "digital" YES/NO approach is very strange, at least to me.

https://www.sdrplay.com/community/viewt ... ble#p11652

Here is the thread. What did Noel write? Nobody can now tell, as the text is gone forever...

I see graphs tend to annoy some Forum dwellers. Since I have uploaded many, I shall try to use lesser numbers, even though, as President Mao once said: "a picture is worth one thousand words".

Reason: No reason

ON5HB
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:07 pm

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by ON5HB » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:15 pm

Nobody is forced to read other people's replies.

You can choose to simply ignore them and move on.

On every forum in the world there will be people that post stuff that other don't like.

Walk the dog, ignore it and be happy is my way.

In the end you are just reading a screen and you do not know who the other is, let alone how his mood was when he wrote it.
Never trust text to be the way you feel about it to be correct, it's often wrongly interpreted and fights start over nothing.

Sad to see you go, but take my advise: Don't let the screen get to you as it will happen all over the internet no matter where you go.

Reason: No reason

Ian1951
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:36 pm

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by Ian1951 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:21 pm

First my qualifications, I've been a licensed amateur radio operator since 1965, back when the FCC handed out WN and KN calls to novices.

I graduated high school in 1969, attended a 2 year vocational school and graduated with a FCC first class commercial license. I worked for most of my professional life as a two way radio technician and installer. I've also worked in commercial broadcast TV and AM radio stations as contracted "as needed" maintenance technician. I also helped install the radio equipment for a local airport and we had to follow FAA guidelines.

My experience has primarily been hands on, with a bare minimum of advanced theory.

I suspect my 2 year vocational diploma in electronics is roughly analogous to an associate EE degree. Although most of what I learned in school has about as much relevance to sailing ships.

I do not have an EE degree because I could not hack the math.


I do not have a dog in this fight and I had stopped contributing to online forums after getting scorched in the global thermonuclear flame wars in the old rec.radio.shortwave use group, but I was moved to try and explain what I believe Nulluser00 was trying to explain.

In his aborted post to the USB extender thread, I think he was trying to demonstrate the USB interface specifications allow for adequate Electro Static Discharge protection for cables up to 5 meters.

Cables longer then 5 meters are likely to pick up enough energy from nearby lightning strikes to induce more energy then the USB port ESD protection can dissipate without damage to the host computer.

He gave a link, https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/TND335-D.PDF

And here is another link to the same document.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf

Anyone interested in radio and using a computer would do well to study the PDF for suggestions on how to avoid problems.

At the risk of pissing off those who dislike too much information:

USB Protection
Universal Serial Bus (USB) has become a very popular interface for connecting peripherals and portable devices such as cameras, cell phones and digital assistants to computers. The USB interface consists of 4 wires, power and ground wires and a pair of differential signal wires, as shown in Figure 33a. USB is only intended for local connections, having a maximum cable length of 5m. Since the cable will not be extending over long distances or outside of building there is no need to protect against surges such as lightning. The major concern is ESD damage. The biggest ESD concern is Cable Discharge Event (CDE). This occurs when a cable, and possible a portable device on the opposite end of the cable, become charged and discharge when inserted into the USB connector. USB ports therefore need ESD protection. There is currently no test standard for CDE, although the ESDA is working on one. Some testing of USB ports is sometimes done with modifications of the IEC 61000-4-2 test method."


The paper has examples and presents a complex subject in a fairly non technical manor full of charts and graphics insured to piss off the graphic illiterate.

Because On Semiconductor is a major manufacturer of USB port chips, I accept their 5 meter limit has some real world validity and I know from personal experience that using USB extenders can result sever damage to a Dell desktop PC from lightning induced transients that almost certainly came in on my antenna coaxial cable to my Softrock SDR.

I experienced simultaneous failure of a Softrock SDR, a Behringer USB audio interface and the PC when an thunderstorm was at least 50 miles away according to live weather radar TV.

Please note that all the USB ports were fried and this happened while I used a 10 meter active USB extension in an attempt to remove the unshielded Softrock SDR from the noise in our home.

This was with a house that exceeds the national electric and FAA grounding guidelines.


As to the comment in your thread: "A) An induced strike on the long wire antenna will be blocked by the balun transformer, whose primary must be connected to earth by definition. In the worst possible case the balun will disintegrate."

I have to dispute part of your statement, I agree that yes, the balun or unun can disintegrate from a direct strike, but I've also experienced a nearby lightning strike that cause the insulation to fail and transfer enough energy from primary to secondary to fry the front end of my Kenwood TS-480SAT.

Nearby is relative and the thunderstorm associated with this damage was at least 50 miles away by radar as shown on live radar TV.

There was a 9:1 balun with isolated primary and secondary on my reversible Beverage antenna.

The shield was connected to ground as required by the national electric code and relevant FAA guidelines.

His other comment in that thread would probably only make sense to a materials engineer or fire inspectors.

Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing is a thin walled tube of stainless steel. Unlike traditional black iron pipes, the stainless steel tubing is susceptible to lightning induced arcs that can and do burn holes in the thin metal walls. Holes with natural gas and electrical arcs are a recipe for disaster.

The advantage is CSST can be quickly installed, and since time is money in the construction trade, CSST has become very popular with builders.

Compare the ease of laying out thick coaxial cable or a garden hose to traditional black iron pipe. Every bend in the black iron has to be cut, threaded, etc, where CSST can be laid in place and the connections are only slightly more complex then attaching a garden hose.

I suspect the loss of his family to a faulty HVAC system, where the stainless steel tubing failed due to a nearby lightning strike might have left Noel a bit paranoid.

I was a bit doubtful of his statements until I googled CSST and lightning damage. The results were troubling enough so we had all the CSST replaced in our home with traditional black iron pipes.


Noel's social skills are sadly lacking, he has too little self confidence and desires to "be nice" and not offend anyone. This combination is an all too common occurrence in the gifted. I know our twin daughter have trouble breaking down information for us normals to understand. Of course our twins are both advanced theoretical physicists and the stuff they work on has almost nothing to do with normal life.

Noel clearly has difficulty "parsing" his information into bite sized blocks of data, he is simultaneously trying to present extremely complex concept with supporting references while trying to simplify the subject mater for us normals.

I make it a point to print to a PDF every interesting thread or web page I come across and I had to take most of Noel's posts to a retired EE professor I know for clarification.

It was too bad he couldn't reduce the content to the bare minimum and not overload us with supporting data.

As to those who dislike graphics, screw them. Your posts have been masterful and I have a better understanding of the actual how to design and test various filters. Something my formal education sadly lacked.

I use a RSP1a as a panadaptor for my repaired Kenwood HF transceiver.

A bit or a rant on proper grounding in general.

With the exception of cellular phone sites, I can count on one hand the number of commercial business band systems, ham radio stations or short wave listener setups that were not installed by the company I worked for that came close to meeting the bare minimums of the national electric code.

Our biggest problem with upgrading or repairing systems that we did not install was convincing the owners that their radio antenna, tower, and coaxial cable all had to be grounded.

I've witnessed tens of thousands of ancillary equipment damaged by non compliant antennas.

For those who wish to avoid expensive "oops," there are any number of excellent webpages by hams that detail practical steps the average radio nut can take to minimize their risks.

For those who feel a need to flame me, go right ahead, after the rec.radio wars I doubt you can hold a candle for them to pee by.

Ian
Last edited by Ian1951 on Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am, edited 0 times in total.
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sdrom33
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Parting thoughts

Post by sdrom33 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:46 pm

Hi Ian, thanks for your post and for giving us a glimpse of Noel's background. Please be assured there are no wars in our Forum and very, very seldom, according to my experience, there are personal issues among Forum members. Even my (unfortunate?) observation about brevity was not posted maliciously, but with the genuine intent to help Noel, in short, to make him see his work from a different viewpoint. His response to my post, not only surprised me, but also made me, at first, feel somehow guilty. Perhaps if Noel told me to mind my own business, instead of blowing the works up, we would all be in a more positive situation in this circumstance.

Thomas

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